127 | How Liz Simplified Her Finances and Created Peace of Mind

My client Liz had saved a significant amount of money but didn’t feel like she had a good handle on her finances.

She had a system for tracking her money but wasn’t getting useful data to help her manage it better going forward and felt like her savings wasn’t enough.

During our work together, Liz completely shifted her view of money and developed a simpler system to manage her money that works for her.

As a result she feels more at peace and confident with her finances.

In this episode, Liz and I chat about our work together, including how her view of money has shifted and why she thinks simplicity in your finances is so important.

• Liz’s experience with money before coaching
• looking for rules in managing your money
• the importance of simplicity in your money system
• how feeling unconfident with money impacted the way Liz managed her money
• feeling guilt and shame as a high-income-earner who doesn’t know how to manage your money
• saving with no purpose vs. saving with a purpose
• achieving a goal and moving the goalpost
• treating money as an accomplishment
• the power of awareness with your finances
• words of encouragement for anyone who’s feeling like they don’t have a handle on their finances

n/a

If you’re ready to learn the mindset and strategies to master your money, let’s schedule a call.

You’re listening to Wealthyesque. We are a community of lawyers who believe that true wealth is having control of our time. I’m Rho Thomas, and as a busy wife, mom and former Biglaw associate, I know all too well the tension between the culture of the legal profession and pretty much everything else you want to do in life. That’s why each week, I’m bringing you the information and tools you need to improve your money mindset and manage your money to create true wealth. Because ultimately, it’s not about the money. It’s about the freedom and flexibility the money affords.

Hey friend. Welcome back to the show. I hope you’re doing well and having an amazing day so far. If you are listening in real time, today is the day after Thanksgiving here in the US. So Happy Thanksgiving to you, if you celebrate. I hope you were able to eat some good food and enjoy the holiday with your loved ones. And whether you celebrate or not, I am so thankful for you. And I’m thankful that you take time out of your day to listen to this podcast. So thank you for being a part of my community.

Today, I’m introducing you to my client Liz. When Liz came to me, she had actually managed to save a significant amount of money. But she didn’t feel like she had a good handle on her finances and kept pushing herself to save more because her savings never felt like enough. Since our work together, she has shifted her view of money, simplified her money system and created confidence and peace of mind for herself. Her story is going to be so helpful for you. So listen in as she shares her wisdom on changing your view of money and managing it in a simpler way.

Rho
Welcome to the podcast, Liz, how’s it going?

Liz
Hi, Rho. It’s good. Thank you. How are you doing?

Rho
Well, thank you. So for all the listeners, Liz is one of my clients, she is a mid law attorney. And we are just finishing up our time together. And so I wanted to have you on Liz to talk about your experience and the work that we’ve done together, and how you’re feeling about your finances now. But before we get into all of that, please tell us a little bit about your money story before coaching.

Liz
Sure, before coaching, I was in a position that I think a lot of people in our field relate to which is that I was comfortable and make good money, particularly in the past two years or so. And I can definitely meet my needs. But I felt not in control of my money. I felt like I didn’t really know what I should be doing to maximize its future potential. And mine, I didn’t know whether my spending was appropriate. And I didn’t have a metric either my own or someone else’s, to measure that against. So I would sort of accumulate these little pieces of money, lore, right, like, Oh, your rent shouldn’t be more than 30% of your income, or you should set aside X percentage. And then I go looking for more specialized advice, like, does that apply to me based on my age based on my needs based on my goals, and that doesn’t really exist for folks that make good money are very comfortable, but wouldn’t consider themselves wealthy or have wealth management, quote, unquote. So I didn’t feel confident, I didn’t feel like I was doing the right things. But I didn’t know what else to do. And I also felt like I was spending a lot of energy, mentally and emotionally dealing with my money, but not bettering my situation because of that. So I would keep spreadsheets of my credit card spending, but it wouldn’t be categorized. So I would know I spend more on a credit card, but not on what or I would feel really good about being able to sock away a lot and savings one month, but I wouldn’t know what the ultimate goal of that savings was. And I didn’t have any plan in place to be able to replicate that or put in a consistent percentage every month. So definitely just felt out of control under educated and very concerned about what about my money management was going to change to put me into a better situation.

Rho
You touched on a couple of things that I want to dive into the first being the rules because you know how I feel about the rules. Can you talk a little bit?

Liz
Yes, I do.

Rho
Can you talk a little bit about you know your thoughts about money rules when you were like trying to figure things out on the front end versus how you’re thinking about money rules now since working together.

Liz
So I think that previously, I was desperate for rule because as I think I said many times when we were working together, I just wanted someone to affirm that I was doing the right thing. And so if there was a breakdown percentage of what I spend versus what I say, or how much I am investing, or even where I’m investing that, then I could tell myself, I’m doing all the right things, I shouldn’t feel this anxiety about my money. And I think that that’s something that’s very natural for people in our age cohort for people in the law, the law is just a game of rolls, better, you know, the rules, the better you play the game. And I felt like everyone else had a rule, everyone else had this confidence. Everyone else knows what they’re supposed to be doing. I’m sure you have friends, like I have friends who work in fields like consulting or finance, who it seems that their very work, educates them on what to do with their money personally. And that is not at all what’s happening in my career in litigation. And it’s not something I think everybody gets the benefit of. So that’s how I felt about it previously. And I think the first couple of months of our working together, you had to push me pretty consistently to even just admit that what I wanted was a rule, even just admit that what I was looking for was that outside metric. And now, I think the rules are fine, but I am not looking for them. Maybe that’s good advice. Maybe generally, those breakdowns are are what you should be doing. And that gets people where they need to be. But I don’t need those to manage my money to do quote unquote, the right thing, and to set myself up for the future. Because it’s actually much simpler not to have to abide by rules, because rules aren’t going to take into account everyone’s individual situation, right? I’m not going to be able to make the savings, I want along a percentage of a rule maybe every month, or maybe I’m going to choose to live above those roles, percentage wise, in some areas of my life and not in others. And then you’re without a role. And then what do you do, right? So it’s much better to have a thought system for approaching your money that then can be as specific and as applicable to your situation as need be because you’re creating it. So once you have those principles in mind, it is infinitely better than a roll, I don’t find myself looking for that now. I find it interesting, I think I can do a better job of interrogating the basis for those things. And sometimes you find that they’re just made up. I mean, you know, I think a lot of people know, for example, that De Beers made up the three months salary engagement role, because they needed a flexible metric that people have a lot of different income levels, especially Gi is returning from the Second World War could follow, right? And men didn’t know what to spend on jewelry, especially if you didn’t have like an heirloom diamond coming down. So they’re like, great, we will make this up for you. And it wasn’t a finance consideration. It was advertising. That’s not who I want making any rules I might follow for my money. Because if you’re advertising something, you’re selling something and maybe I want that product, but maybe I don’t.

Rho
Yeah. And I mean, I think to your point, the rules are made up, right, somebody just decided that this, this is a good idea, like, oh, yeah, saving this much this percentage, if you’re this age, is a good idea. But what really comes through and what you’re talking about is the authority that you have to make decisions for your own finances, versus delegating that to some external third party some, quote, expert, right? You decide now how you want to manage your money. And maybe some of that is in line with some of these rules, but you’re not just blindly following the rules, you are intentionally making those decisions for yourself.

Liz
Absolutely. Which is better, because I get to pursue my goals in the way that is best for me. But also, because I know this is applicable to me, it’s not a rule that a nameless authority made up, maybe those some of the way we manage our money came about when a huge part of the workforce was looking forward to a pension. So that’s not a good rule about your investment, or, or something similarly impactful that I can’t even think of an example right now, because there’s just a million money stories, right. And the rules can only apply so well to so many.

Rho
Yes. Another thing that you brought up when you were talking about your story is simplicity. And your finances, and you know how you had all of these different pieces, these moving parts of your finances. Tell me about how you’re feeling now, in terms of the complexity of your finances.

Liz
I would say that my finances are far more simple and more approachable than they were when we first started working together. I had like I think I mentioned quite a few tracking mechanisms around my money. But the data I was getting from that wasn’t useful. So I would track how much I spent across each of my credit cards or from Egypt. count every month. But because I didn’t know what those for the most part, I didn’t know what exactly those numbers represented how much of X category, it couldn’t help me make different decisions or change my behavior. And the longer that you do something, especially something complicated, that doesn’t appear to have a benefit to you, the less likely you are to do it. You have always said to me, the more simple and approachable your finances are, the more likely you are to stick with whatever system you’re using, and to make it work for you. That’s absolutely been the case. For me, I have consolidated my spending in ways that are easier to track, I have changed how I spend and onward mechanism to make that easier. And now I not only know it’s easy to track, it’s easy to know where my money is going. But it’s easy for me to set goals and particularly goals around my behavior, because of that simplicity that I just wasn’t able to do previously.

Rho
Yes. And the final thing that I pulled out was you were talking about not feeling confident with your money. And we have had this conversation about when you’re not feeling confident, you’re feeling insecure, or you’re just feeling uneducated, around money, and how that can show up for people. Can you talk a little bit if you’re comfortable? Talk a little bit about how that was showing up for you before we started working together?

Liz
Yeah, absolutely. It showed up in one way in a way we’ve already discussed, which is the search for the role, right? When you don’t feel secure, when you don’t feel like you know what’s going on in any arena, you are going to go looking for an authority to tell you what’s going on to tell you what you should be doing. And certainly there are just so so many people 1000s of people in the media and in professional finance, who want to tell you what’s going on and what you should be doing. And as we’ve discussed, maybe that’s helpful and applicable, maybe it’s not. And another way that it showed up for me was sort of an inability to move forward in pursuit of a specific or specific money goals. You know, if you don’t feel confident, you let’s let’s put in a positive context, if you don’t feel confident about your money management, but you do manage to have a low spending month and you save much more than you anticipated, the odds that you are going to replicate that behavior, or that you are going to turn even that sort of one time windfall, for lack of a better word into something positive for yourself are much lower, right? Because you’re not going to do it again, you’re not going to necessarily put that money towards your highest goal, it’s best to use in your money story, it’s just going to be a random good thing that happened. And if as I think is even more understandable, a negative thing happens, you overspend or you have some kind of emergency and you have to dip into savings. There’s nothing to prevent that from happening. Again, it’s very difficult to take wisdom from that situation, and put yourself in a better position going forward. And then the one last thing I wanted to touch on with that was, I definitely struggled with a lot of feelings of guilt and shame around money. And some of that has to do with my particular Money Story. We’re all told things about money, or come to understand things about money when we’re children, before we even understand what money is. But for me, and I think I’ve heard this story from other other folks in the legal field, I felt that guilt and that shame, because I know that I’m very lucky to work in a relatively high dollar feels. And so I knew I’m bringing in good money, I’m very comfortable, I don’t have to worry about meeting my obligations every month in a way that a lot of people, a lot of friends of mine, a lot of family of mine do worry about that. And yet, I have all these anxieties over money. And yet, I’m not sure I’m doing the right thing. And yet, I’m not maximizing my knowledge to make it so that I can better other people’s material lives with that very lucky, very privileged income that I have. So, you know, it’s just sort of this perfect storm of things that make you go looking for someone else to handle your money, sort of abdicate that responsibility, and therefore not be able to pursue your your best intentions in your best goals.

Rho
Yeah, I think that is exactly right. You know, when you’re feeling unconfident, you’re going to look for someone else to tell you what to do. You’re feeling uneducated, and you’re like, Well, I’ve got all of this money, I should just save it because that’s what they say that you should you know, versus Yeah, like we’ve talked about the like competing goals of like saving money, but also maybe paying off debt. And for some people, I know that you experienced this it was like, Well, I’m supposed to save. I’m supposed to save money, right? And so you just keep saving, but you don’t look at the holistic picture of your finances and the other goals that you have because you Think that you might make a mistake. If you look at something else, if you don’t continue to keep this money in your hands, right? If you let it go to pay off the loan or the credit card or whatever it is, then it’s like, oh, well, I can’t let the money go, I’ve got to keep it because you don’t feel that confidence around managing your money. And like you said, you’re not able to use your money then for your highest goals.

Liz
Absolutely. And I think, to that end, I feel comfortable saying to your listeners that I have less in savings now than I did when we started working together. And we’ve talked about how just that fact, prior to our work would have made me so uncomfortable for that exact reason that I would just, I have less money, that is an objectively bad thing. But the reason that I have less than savings is because the stated goal of my savings was to have some amount of an emergency fund in the event that I wasn’t earning. And I knew that I can now maintain that and also serve other goals, like paying off debt, like meeting emergencies like giving generously. So I totally agree, I think having that kind of confidence is everything.

Rho
Yeah, and you had a very common situation that many lawyers have where it’s like, I’m supposed to be saving, and we’re putting this money aside saving, saving, saving, but there wasn’t a particular purpose, or a particular amount is like, Well, you had an amount that you wanted to get to. But it was like, Well, why? It’s like, because that’s how much it should be right?

Liz
And for everyone listening row had to repeatedly question me on this. And my response was repeatedly, because I want that amount of money. And I know, I know that pot, I just continue to save to that dollar number, I would have just continued to save to another dollar number. And maybe those would have gone, that money would eventually have gotten used to pay down debt or put a down payment on a home or or any number of other goals. But the process of spending it even in service of my goals, even in a conscious, healthy positive way, would have been very uncomfortable for me in a way that I don’t think it will be now.

Rho
Yeah, I mean, I think it was a situation of the goalposts moving because he told me at one point, the goal was x, and then you got to x and it’s like, oh, no, it should be 2x. And then you know, you’re going to do X. And of course, when you get to 2x, then it’s going to be 3x or, you know, whatever it is. And so it’s taking the time to define the goal for yourself, and knowing the reasons why not just of course, I should have this amount of money, right? I want this amount of money for this reason, like this is how much my living expenses are, this is going to be this many months of living expenses. So that’s going to be the emergency fund, or I’m saving this much for this vacation. And so when I get to that amount, I know that I’m finished. Because if you don’t, then you find yourself continually moving that goalposts for yourself, and you never get to the point that you feel you’ve accomplished your goal. It’s always something more, right, I have to do more.

Liz
Right, which I think brings up another really big point for me, which is that I would not have described myself this way before we work together. But I was absolutely treating money as an external accomplishment as a milestone, rather than as a tool to be used. And people create all sorts of money situations for themselves. People live all sorts of lives with any different level of resource, right. And I think that were raised, at least folks that fall into my like, millennial category is like, obviously more money is better. And if you’re not thinking about earning more, you’re making a mistake. And I think that without confidence in your money in your money system in your ability to set and meet your own goals. It’s it’s very easy to not only say, Well, I just need to keep saving this money, but also to make bigger, more impactful choices on the basis of just being able to gather more money to follow a practice path that you wouldn’t have otherwise to move to jobs that maybe don’t serve your other goals in how you create a work life balance or the values that your practice works towards, or whatever it is. And it’s very easy for money to become a goal unto itself. And I think that, you know, most people treat money that way. And money is either a goal that they’re meeting or that they’re failing at, as opposed to a tool that they can use to accomplish any number of other goals in their life. And once you realize that once you start treating money, and you’re spending as a choice, it’s just a far easier way to live. Because, you know, capitalism teaches us that like, there is an infinite amount of money and maybe there is maybe there isn’t. But if you live that way, it’s very difficult to feel not only satisfied, but comfortable. And it’s very easy to sort of live in a perpetual anxiety of this won’t be enough. I won’t be enough. The I will be safe. I can’t keep the people I love safe. And there’s so many very balls that go into that, besides just the amount of money that you are able to earn and sock away.

Rho
I completely agree with all of that. Yes. Now, we may have already touched on some of this in our conversation so far. But what are some of the biggest takeaways from our time together, like how you’re thinking about money now versus how you were thinking about it before.

Liz
So I think the broadest one, and we’ve discussed this is that nothing changes, if nothing changes, if you are feeling uncomfortable about your money, for whatever reason, if you feel like it’s not enough, if you feel like you’re not doing the right things, if you feel like you are just making bad choices, and you don’t know why you keep doing that, or I mean even less awareness than bad choices, right, you just have bad outcomes, you have less money than you want, or you’re spending more on something, if you don’t know where your money’s going, and you can’t define your goal is where you would prefer it to be going instead, you can’t change anything. And so I think the very first thing is, if you start looking at where your money is going and do nothing else, make no changes. Don’t spend any differently, don’t save any differently, don’t invest any differently, you’re still going to be in a much better situation, simply because that awareness is is 50% of the battle. And I was not only not aware of for reasons, like I wasn’t using a good system, or I just wasn’t tracking everyone, but because of some sort of conscious ignorance as well. I like a lot of folks have a lot of student loan debt, particularly in my case, for graduate school for law school. And I just wasn’t paying any attention to it. I was in a situation where I wasn’t being penalized for that, per se, because we are within the COVID Pause period still. But at least we were having this conversation. But I wasn’t making a plan, I wasn’t going to figure out how to get myself into a better situation going forward, I was just sort of hoping something changed around me. So that would be the first thing. The second thing we have already touched on, which is simplicity, figure out what you need to know. And the simplest way to get that data, I’m now working off a category based budget, which is part of of your system, I did not like that. I didn’t like it when he brought it up. I didn’t enjoy doing it for the first couple of months. Because I’d had negative experiences in the past and used products. I think I meant at one point, I think I was trying to do sort of my own tracking. And they just didn’t work for me, either. It was entirely in hindsight. And I would look back at a month and say, Okay, well that that wasn’t great. But I wasn’t setting forth a budget that I wanted to stick to going forward. Or because it wasn’t simple, in that at some point, it was too granular. I wanted to know every dollar I spent on this grocery, whether it was at vendor a or vendor B or whatever, and there is a level of granularity about your spending that you don’t need. You know, it’s it’s not that important. You need to know the general categories, so that you can relate those to your behavior. But I was like we talked about putting in a fair amount of effort to get some really useless data. So one awareness to simplicity. And then the last thing I would say, is really internalizing the concept of all money moves or choices. Unlike some other elements in your life, money is a zero sum game, you can’t increase it, you can increase it in passive ways. But $1 in one category means $1 less in another category. And so I really wasn’t thinking of my money that way. I was thinking of good and bad things that would be bad to spend on a bunch of stuff, whether I need it or not. And it would be good to save. Well, we’ve already talked about how some of that savings was unnecessary. And in fact, that became if you want to assign value to a bad choice about option because it was just sitting there when it could have been going to pay off debt that would actually save me money later. Because I don’t I wouldn’t be then you know accruing interest, or you know, reframing those choices around like, well, if you want something you need something. One thing you and I worked on was I had long wanted to purchase a couch, which is a large purchase. People don’t go around buying them every day. But it’s also it’s not a house. It’s not my retirement fund. And the idea of using savings money to do that was really uncomfortable to me. And it took a while before I was like wait, I need this item. I want this item. I can afford this item. This is fine. This is a choice I want to make. And so even when you go over your budget to be able to say I’m choosing to do this, I want to buy this gift, I want to go out to this dinner. I want this jacket. I’m being sort of glib but like I want this medical care, right? I want to see a dentist I want to get this therapy. I want to make sure my car is in good working order for the winner. Everything whether you assign a value to it or not as a choice. And once you do that once you view your money making those choices. I have found it a lot easier to pursue my goals, and also sort of divorcing those two things, right? Your choices serve your goals, your choices, and your goals are two different things.

Rho
Yeah. And two things that you said, One, the choice is, you know, all about making intentional choices for your money. I’m like, you can come on and take my job, because all of that I’m like, Yes, co-sign.

Liz
That would be a very bad event, dear listeners, we want rho to be doing the work that she’s doing. Absolutely.

Rho
But the second thing, when you were talking about the budget, I was like, yes, those two things of only looking at your money in hindsight, right with some of those products that you talked about, where it’s like, oh, yeah, I guess I shouldn’t have gone to, you know, gone out to eat that one extra time, or whatever it is, like, that’s why I think it’s so important to make those intentional choices on the front end. But then to the point about getting really granular, like sometimes people are like, Yeah, I’m gonna intentionally choose, and it’s like, they’re getting down into like, subcategories of the categories. And yeah, that goes back to what you were talking about a theme that has kind of run through our conversation about simplicity, right, The simpler you can make your financial system, the more likely you are to stick with it and actually see the progress that you want to make. And so I love that you brought up those two things, because I think they are very common. And they are often reasons why people aren’t able to stick with their budgets, because they’re making it too complex, right, too granular, or they’re not using it in a way that’s actually beneficial to them. They’re just getting the information in hindsight.

Liz
Absolutely. And one further thing I’d add to that is, the simplicity doesn’t come just from the system that you use to track your money. There are ways to spend money simpler, one thing that we worked on for me was, I was spending my two primary means of spending across a variety of categories were a credit card, and from my debit account. And the result of doing that, for me, it’s perfectly fine to spend to assign jobs to different means of your money means to get to your money. But for me, it was usually resulting in my overspending. And I would stand at the register, I think all of us have done like, should I put this on this card? Should I put this on this debit card? Should I put this on this? And you very gently suggested like, Well, why don’t? Why don’t you just put everything you can on the credit card, and then you’ll pay that off every month, which I was already doing. And it’s easier to track that. But it’s also it removes that moment of friction standing at the register, and saying, Okay, what do I do now, and almost sort of tricking myself into thinking that I’m not spending as much money as I thought, because I only spend X on a credit card and only spend X on this debit card and whatever. So that simplicity trickles in to other places. And can can be very powerful in other ways. I can’t tell you like the weight, it relieves the time you don’t spend thinking about that dealing with it concerned over it. That’s very valuable to me.

Rho
I love that. I think that is spot on, when you can remove the confusion, the friction, the like back and forth of should I do this? Or should I do that you’re going to make faster decisions with your finances. And like you said, the benefit of not splitting that spending, you’re able to see more clearly exactly how much you’re spending so that you can stay on track and be less likely to go over budget. Right?

Liz
And ultimately, like simplicity responds to curiosity. So if you’re curious about what you could be doing different with your money, if you’re curious about an investment or whatever, the simpler and more approachable your finances are, the more likely you are to explore those opportunities for yourself, and to be able to change your behavior in response to what you want.

Rho
Yes. Alright, so what words of encouragement do you have for anyone who is where you were before we started working together.

Liz
So for the person who was where I was, which I’ll just contextualize, I was paying quite a bit of attention to my finances. I just wasn’t doing so in a way that made me feel good. It wasn’t moving me along, I was tracking my spending in a way that didn’t tell me anything I needed to know. So whether you are completely ignoring your money, or you are very involved in the management of your money, but don’t feel good about it, I’ll just tell you that there is a better way to do it. And you should definitely definitely see if rho Thomas has any time to work with you. But even if that’s not possible for you, addressing it holistically, non judgmentally objectively looking at your money picture not ignoring your loans, which I was definitely doing not acting on the bases have very vague undefined goals. Oh, that’s for a down payment for a house. Oh, do you want to buy a house? No. Okay. You know, whatever that is. You will feel better when you sit down and You either face what you’re avoiding, or try to simplify what you’re doing. And then the other thing too, is that I think a lot of what we struggle with with our money is that in order to sell us certain things, the financial world or even, like semi financial, right, like whatever financial advice you’re getting from Cosmopolitan magazine, okay? It has an agenda that may not be yours, maybe it is, maybe they want to maximize your retirement fund, and you want to maximize your retirement fund. And that’s a great Venn Diagram of interests. But ultimately, the more that you can make your money, approachable, knowable, simple for yourself, the more choices you’re going to be able to make with it. And I have both directly with rho, but also with resources that we’ve identified and that I’ve identified as a result of our work, being able to learn so much more. And I’m prepared now to speak with a financial advisor about my investment, but not just say, tell me what to do. Right? Now, I feel like I have the confidence to have those conversations with experts. So even in getting resources, there is no abdication of my own personal responsibility for my money. All of this is possible. None of this was something that I was feeling before rho and minds work together. None of this was natural. To me, it was not how I was raised to think about money. And the number one thing that I think I’ve gained is peace of mind, not because I’m always going to be able to make the best choice, not because I’m doing everything right by whatever metric is out there. But because I’m going to be able to respond to my needs and my challenges in the best possible way. And not, not just carry around that confusion and that concern and that anxiety, and ultimately use money the way it’s meant to be used, which is to make a good beautiful life in service.

Rho
Is there anything else that you would like to share with the listeners,

Liz
Nothing except for an encouragement to, to look at it, I don’t have any problem telling the listeners that I am currently 34, I was 34 when we started working together about to turn 35. This feels very late for me. But whether you are right at the beginning of your career, or you have been carrying around your money anxieties for many more years than I, there’s no reason you have to live with that you can with that anxiety with that guilt without fear. And it’s not that hard. It’s not that hard to do this, it is made infinitely easier by people like rho. But even if that’s not something that’s an option for you right now, you can do this, I promise. And anyone or anything that has told you you can’t or made you feel less than capable was absolutely false.

Rho
Liz thank you so much for coming on the show for sharing your story and all of your wisdom with the people. I truly appreciate it. And I must say that it was my pleasure, my honor to work with you. And I’m so proud of all the work that you’ve done and to see where you are now with your finances with your money mindset is just beyond. I love it.

Liz
It’s awesome. And I have to say, bro, any wisdom I’m spouting here is yours, but it’s very generous of you to let me identify it as mine. But thank you it was a privilege and an honor to work with you too.

Rho
All right, I hope you enjoy that conversation with Liz. I know so many of you can relate to where she was when we first started working together. So if that’s you, you should definitely come work with me. I can help you feel better about your money and create a system for managing it that works for you. Just head to rho thomas.com/waitlist to get started. All right. That is it for this week’s episode. Come connect with me over on social media. I am most often on LinkedIn, rho Thomas, and Instagram at I am rho Thomas. Subscribe to the show and leave a review both of which helped more people to find it. And please take a second and think of a friend or two who you think could use this information and share it with them. As we close out friend, I pray that you take the information you learn here, apply it in your life and open up to the realization that wealth is available to you. As you do that consistently week after week, you’ll continue to take steps to regain control of your time, build wealth, and live the life of freedom and choice you deserve. Talk to you later.