247 | How Charity Realized She Could Afford Anything

My client Charity was making good money but felt like she should have more.

She thought the answer was to get a higher-paying, more stressful job. But during our work together, she found that she just needed to manage the money she already makes differently.

In this episode, listen in as Charity and I chat about our work together, what she’s been able to accomplish, and how she’s feeling about her finances now.

• • Charity’s money journey before coaching
  • managing money while living in New York City
  • how she funded a major purchase that’s been a goal for a while
  • aligning her spending with what’s important to her
  • seeing church members who made less but were doing more with it
  • learning to stay in her own lane and not compare herself with others
  • the financial accomplishments she’s most proud of
  • creating boundaries and talking to friends about her financial goals
  • Charity’s words of encouragement for those still finding their way in their money journey

Afford Anything podcast

You’re listening to Personal Finance for Lawyers. I’m Rho Thomas, and as a busy wife, mom, and former Biglaw associate, I know all too well the tension between the culture of the legal profession and pretty much everything else you want to do in life. That’s why each week, I’m bringing you the information and tools you need to improve your money mindset and manage your money to create true wealth. Because ultimately, it’s not about the money. It’s about the freedom and flexibility the money affords.

Hey friend. Welcome back to the show. I hope you’re doing well and having an amazing day so far.

Today, I am bringing you a conversation with my client Charity. Now, if you are in a situation where you’re making good money, but you feel like you should have more, this episode is for you, because that’s exactly where charity found herself.

But with a few tweaks, she now has more money than she had in the past, and she was able to achieve a goal that she thought she would not be able to achieve for years, so listen in to this conversation, and I hope you find some inspiration in it for your own situation.

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Rho: Welcome to the podcast, Charity.

Charity: Thanks for having me, Rho. 

Rho: Absolutely, my pleasure. So, for everyone listening, Charity is one of my clients. She is an associate at a boutique firm, and we have just finished up working together. And so we’re going to talk a little bit about our work and how she’s feeling about her finances. 

So Charity, tell us, how were you feeling about money? Or what was your money journey before we started working together?

Charity: So, before we started working together, my money journey was a little askew. I would say that I needed a lot of work in terms of honing my money management skills. I felt like I was in a dire situation even though I was on paper making the kind of money that the average person would never see in a lifetime.

So, it was kind of a weird dichotomy of like, how do I justify my spending, but then my income isn’t matching what my spending looks like.

And so, yeah, it was really important for me to kind of hone these skills by joining your coaching program, which has been very helpful.

Rho: Well, I’m so glad that it’s been helpful. And, you know, I think your experience is so common. Like a lot of lawyers especially are in this position where they’re making good money.

They, you know, feel like, “oh man, I’ve never, never thought I would have made this kind of money.” You know, “so many people would love to be in this position,” and yet because of the way we manage it, we end up feeling like money is tight and we’re, you know, we don’t really see the benefit of making that additional money.

Does that sound accurate?

Charity: Yeah. And I also, something I left out was that I was a very spontaneous spender. 

In the past, before we started this program, I was very emotional when it came to spending. I didn’t really think through, unlike my job, I didn’t think through all the different consequences of how one decision would impact another future decision or future me.

So it was a different mindset, I would say to put it simply.

Rho: I love that you talked about not thinking about how your decisions in the present would impact things in the future because I think that is also a common experience.

That’s how most people manage their money. Where it’s like, like I say all the time, the extent of my money strategy before was like, is there money in the account? Okay, let me buy this thing or let me do that thing.

And I didn’t have that holistic view if you will, of like, what’s going on with my money and what does this purchase today mean for this other thing that I want to do in two weeks, in a month and, you know, whatever time period?

So, yeah like being able to think more about how these purchases in the present impact the future is so important.

Charity: And also it’s just living…I live in New York City so there’s so many different factors that are tugging at your wallet.

Like, oh, you walked out the street and it’s funny because there’s memes that talk about as soon as you wake up in New York there’s a $50 charge, which is kind of true in some ways.

Every time I would walk outside my door, I’d end up spending $100, and I was like, where did this money go?

And now that I have the tools and the mindset, honestly, to think about those actions. It’s helped me kind of, decide what things are important to me and what’s going to progress me to my goals.

Rho: Yeah, so let’s dig into that because, you know, I’m big on talking about the things that are important to you.

Tell us more about how you are using, you know, the things that are important to you, the things that you value in your spending decisions. Like, how, how does that change the spending decisions or the spending, yeah, the spending decisions.

Charity: Right, yeah.

I know a big thing that we talked about in our sessions together is my travel obsession.

I love to discover new places and cultures and people, and art and fashion has also been, kind of, like another passion in addition to traveling. But those things can all come together at once for me.

And that was something that we talked about was whether this trip or this pair of pants or this art purchase was progressing me towards my goals, but those were kind of passion points and value areas.

So what I learned was kind of figuring out if, okay, if I want to make this art purchase or I want to buy this expensive piece of clothing, what do I have to say no to in order to create that cushion to be able to get that thing.

And it wasn’t always about saying no. It was what I value more, which I appreciated in your approach was thinking about if something was important to me, how do I align my finances to reflect that.

And it made it easier to say, for me, it made it easier to say no to like food or going to a more expensive brunch or some kind of event that cost more money than I wanted to spend because it took me away from being able to make that art purchase or be able to save towards that trip I wanted to go on.

So I think that was really helpful advice was learning how to value spend versus, like, necessarily scrimping and saving because you have this one goal in mind. It’s like, okay holistically in life, how are you using your, your finances.

Rho: I love that and, you know, I think being able to make room for those things that are important to you is such a critical piece of managing your money because if it’s all about deprivation and I got to cut out all the things and I just have to sit in my house and eat ramen noodles and stare at the wall, and then I can save and pay off debt and be rich, like that doesn’t work.

It’s not sustainable.

And so, one of the things that you were able to do during the time that we were working together and we’re going to get to the monetary progress that you were able to make, but one of the things you did was you made your first, would you call it high ticket art purchase?

Charity: Definitely would say that.

Rho: Can you talk to us about like the strategy around that art purchase? Like how you decided like, okay, can I make this work? All of that kind of stuff.

Charity: Sure. Yeah. I think this was a product of being in your coaching program because I think old me would not have done it the way that I did it.

But so Art Basel happens every December and since we had started the program in July, I was already kind of developing the tools of planning for months ahead.

And I knew I would be going home for December, so we were putting away money for that trip, but then I was looking at Miami and it’s like, oh, did I want to go on a trip to Miami before I go home? And the way the budget was looking, it didn’t make sense to also add on a trip to Miami in December because it’s also, they increase the prices during that time and everything.

And it’s ironic because a lot of people I knew were going this year that didn’t go last year. And I had gone the previous two years.

So I decided I was like, okay, well, the finances don’t look appropriate to add on this trip because it’s going to put me further from my goals. So I’m not going to do Miami this year.

But then I was working with an art advisor who’s actually a really good friend of mine from college. And she had access to the work preview. It was basically a preview to the fair.

So like before the fair started, we had discussions with the gallerist and she let me know like one of the artists that I was kind of eyeing what the price point was for the piece.

And because we had that relationship, I was able to get in on the piece ahead of time.

And without getting into too many details, it was a way for me to decide whether I wanted it without like pressuring myself to just go and make the purchase like previous me would have done.

I had time to reflect and ask questions about how I could make the payment, everything. And so I also looked at my budget and I was like, alright, if I do make this purchase, how is it going to fit with my December and January goals? Because it was kind of in that timeline. and this was happening in November, end of November.

So it …very future oriented but also reflective of what was happening in the present. Because I knew what money was going to come in in December and I was able to make the purchase because I saw the room and because I had that personal connection with the gallerist and then my friend who’s the art advisor that helped progress the decision along.

And the value point for me was that I want to be an art collector and I want to support artists’ careers and be able to make these kind of purchases. 

And hopefully in the future make even bigger purchases.

So hopefully I can maintain these skills to be able to plan for those bigger ones, as well.

But, also I have an interest in collecting from Black women artists. This was a full Black woman team. So the art advisor’s a Black woman, the gallerist is a Black woman, and the artist is a Black woman.

And so I was able to invest in three different Black women’s businesses, which was really a winning point for me. So like the money part of it didn’t matter because of how much I was like investing in those three people. And that made it easier to swallow the cost. You know, because art isn’t cheap. But also it was like looking at that number reflected my values.

So it wasn’t just the number itself. It was also all the things that came with spending that money.

And then, back to my point about not choosing to go to Miami. I don’t think I would have been able to make the purchase had I also traveled to Miami, spent on hotels, spent on Ubers and food. That would have been the money that I spent for the art piece.

So it was, it was learning how to decide, okay, which one, which thing, is more important to me, traveling to go see the piece or actually having the piece itself? And having the piece itself was more important to me since I already had the experience of going to Miami Art Basel before and being there for the art fair in the past.

Rho: And that’s exactly why I wanted to kind of double click here because of the way that you were thinking about like, okay, I could go to this trip. If I do this trip, then I’m not going to be able to hit these other goals.

And then had you gone on the trip, you might not have had the room in your budget to be able to make the purchase, which is the ultimate goal, right? Like you said, you want to become an art collector.

And so I just thought the way that you made that decision was so beautiful because it’s thinking about what is ultimately more important to me, right?

And you’re like, well, I’ve actually done this trip a couple of times already. I don’t necessarily need to have this experience again, but now because I didn’t make that trip, I’ve got this additional money available that I can then put toward a goal that I actually have of collecting art.

So that’s why I wanted to tap in and talk a little bit more about that purchase because I think it also was really reflective of the things that we’ve talked about where spending does not have to be all about, or managing your money doesn’t have to be all about deprivation. You can make room for the things that are important to you if you are intentional about how you’re using your money. 

Charity: Exactly. Intentionality, that’s the word I was looking for. This program has taught me about being intentional and really taking steps towards what really matters to me.

And I think it’s a lesson that I’m learning like coming into my thirties as well as like what’s actually important versus necessarily keeping up with friends or doing something that everybody else is doing. What does Charity want and what does Charity see for herself? And cutting out the noise basically.

Rho: Yeah. And that is such an important question that many of us are not asking ourselves. Like so many of us spend a whole lot of money on stuff that we don’t actually care about because this co-worker did it, that neighbor had it, my cousin did that. You know, all of that kind of stuff. 

Looking at what everybody else is doing and not really thinking about what we want and what’s important to us. And because you did make that, that inquiry of yourself, right? You made that determination about what was really important.

You were able to do something that you didn’t think you would be able to do for a long time. I remember us having these conversations about collecting art and it felt like a far off thing for you. And now here you are a whole art piece owner because you made some intentional decisions about your money. 

So I love that.

Charity: Yeah, yeah, it was all thanks to your guidance too. Like the coaching really helped with guiding my mindset because I think it’s really a mindset shift is thinking about… because my salary didn’t really change at all.

Like the whole year, we were working with the same money, but it felt like I had more because of the decisions that I was making. And I was like, well what six months ago, what was I doing? Cause I did not feel like I had this much money before, even though it’s the same paycheck, so…

Rho: Yes, because before like you said, you’re just looking at what’s in there and spending on these things and not asking yourself those questions, not making those kind of value based decisions about, is this actually important to me? Or would I prefer to use this money for this other thing?

And you’ve used that work mindset a couple of times. Can you tell us more about how your mindset has changed? How your thinking about your money has changed?

Charity: Yeah, I think there’s been a perspective shift as well, because I think at the beginning of the year, I was thinking about how I wanted to increase my income and I didn’t really feel like I was making enough compared to my peers.

And that’s the thing about the legal field, is like you see these inflated salaries and you’re like, oh, I should be making this, but you don’t think about the, the realities of making that money.

You’re working to make that money.

There’s hours that go into that.

And so kind of was feeling a little bit defeated in some ways. Like, oh, I think I should be a little further along.

But then when we started talking or working together, I had a perspective shift in like my salary, like take home compared to the average person is a lot more, and it’s just the way that I’ve diving it up that has the change.

It’s like not the number itself it’s the thoughts around it essentially.

And then my church actually was doing a financial workshop. This is a very vulnerable addition, but one of the pastors is kind of like a financial… he does a lot of financial consultation. So this year he did, he showed three members budgets every session. So we had three weeks and he would show a different person’s budget and how they managed their money.

And the two sessions that I went to, every single one of the people probably made at least half of what I was making, but they were still tithing more than I was. They were putting more towards savings goals. 

So it was like seeing that people are able to work with less numbers and do more than what I was doing with more numbers but less in some of those categories.

And that really shifted my mindset towards that. Like, oh, I have the money to do this, I just need to re prioritize.

Rho: I think a lot of people have that realization.

Like, have you heard where they say, like, if you show me your calendar, you show me your bank account, I’ll show you what you actually value?

Like so often we pay lip service to, I value this, I value that, but we’re not actually putting our time and our money behind that.

And I think it’s because going back to your earlier comment, it’s because we don’t have the intention. We’re not asking ourselves the questions. We’re not looking at how this purchase today impacts my ability to do X tomorrow, right?

And so because you have been more intentional and you have been asking yourself those questions and being more thoughtful about how you’re using your money. Now, you’re able to use your money more in line with those things that you value.

Charity: Yeah, and it’s also been important to me to, which is another life lesson that I’m just learning and becoming clear and clear every day, is not to compare myself to others and stay in my own lane.

Like it was helpful in our sessions, like looking at my numbers, this is what I had to do.

Like, I don’t know what my peers are doing and it doesn’t matter to me because that’s their, data. And what is Charity’s data was helpful to see and reminded me that I’m in my own race.

Like I can’t constantly be comparing, oh, this person is in Big Law, so they, they’re doing this level of things. I can’t compare myself to that person because that’s not my data.

So, that was really helpful too. That helped with the mindset shift as well.

Rho: That’s so real.

And I know we had some conversations about that, like of not looking at what anyone else is doing because… just because you see somebody doing something, like posting something on social media or whatever they’re talking about it at the office, you don’t know how they’re doing it.

Like all we can see is what people are showing us and we don’t see that behind the scenes. And I’m pretty sure I told you in that conversation about the woman that I read about where she had gotten into tens of thousands of dollars of debt trying to keep up an image on social media for no reason, you know, like just because.

So and that’s not to say that anyone you see who’s doing cool things is getting into debt for it, but the point being we have no idea how anyone is doing anything.

And so it’s always best to just compare ourselves to ourselves. Like if you are doing better now than you were, you know, six months ago, that’s great. Regardless of what Bobby and Susie and whoever like, regardless of what they’re doing because we don’t know what’s actually going on. We only know what’s happening for ourselves. So I love that you brought that up.

Charity: Exactly.

Rho: So now tell us as much or as little as you’re willing to share about what you’ve been able to accomplish in the last six months with your finances.

Charity: Yeah. So I think the biggest thing that I’m really, really proud of is that I was able to pay off two student loans.

One of them wasn’t, or both of them were undergraduate loans.

So like I graduated from college in 2016, so it felt like these loans were going to stick with me forever. And some of them will, but they used to…

Rho: They absolutely will not.

Charity: Well. They will not, yes. We’re taking that back. They will not stick with me forever. They’re going to get paid off.

And it was really gratifying to say, okay. And also like a reminder that I went through all this education to get to where I am now. Like I wouldn’t have the job that I had without taking out these loans, honestly. 

And going to the schools that I went to, the experiences that I had, the people that I met. So in some ways that was the value spend for those loans. But I’m proud of being able to pay those off and also proud of my saving goals.

We were working towards keeping a $1000 checking account balance buffer. So like the baseline was $1000 and I was able to maintain that throughout the six months that we worked together, which was really exciting for me.

I never was able to keep that amount of money without spending it in some kind of way. So that was good. And I’ve also hit my savings account goal of $5,000 in less than three months or in around three months, actually. I think it was like just that three months. So I’m looking at increasing that goal even more.

So and then investments are the next, that’s the next terrain for me.

Rho: I love it.

And one of the things that I talk about all the time is like when you have that, that foundation, that cushion, right?

Like you’ve got the buffer in your checking account, you’ve got money in savings, it takes away a whole lot of the worry of the anxiety of, you know, like all of that stuff. It just kind of takes the edge off because if something were to happen, you’ve got these pots of money that you can pull from. Not to mention you also are spending less than you make. So you’ve got a gap there as well that you can pull from.

Charity: Exactly. And that gap piece was really helpful.

Rho, you, you have this great animation of showing, like, how much money you have versus how much you could cut down to in order to have a cushion in that space.

So that was, the visual aspect of your coaching has also been very helpful. Like seeing the numbers, seeing the data, and also seeing the timeline in which things can get paid off and eliminated.

Honestly, like the student loan that is going to be eliminated. It won’t stay around forever. And seeing that it’s a reality was very helpful.

Rho: And as you continue to pay those things down, you have even more money available because now you don’t owe that minimum payment anymore. And I know the, the animation that you’re talking about is where I talk about how, you know, technically you’re able to spend this, right?

Like this is your salary, and there is some measure of like choosing not to spend, right, like, I don’t have to spend right up to that limit. And that’s where your goals are met.

Like when you’re not spending all of it, you leave that gap between how much you’re spending out with expenses and how much you’ve actually brought in.

Now we can start paying off debt, saving, building wealth, because if you’re spending it all, then you don’t have any money to use to build your wealth with.

Charity: Exactly. Yeah.

Rho: So talk to us about how you’re feeling now about your finances versus when we first started working together.

Charity: I feel a lot more confident now. I have strategies for managing my money. It’s like I know concretely what I can and cannot do.

I know you’ve mentioned another podcast, Afford Anything. That phrase has stuck in my mind. It’s like you can afford anything, but sometimes it’s whether you want to meet a goal, not necessarily you can’t afford it.

So, I think that reminder has been something that’s caused me to ask myself questions before spontaneously spending money on things that either in hindsight, I didn’t really value or that just kept me further from my goals that I wanted to make.

So, the Miami trip, for instance, that was a really good reminder of, yeah, I could afford to go, but then will it allow me to meet the goal of being able to purchase art. And the answer to that was no.

So that, that not going on the trip, but Miami’s hopefully going to be there always. So, there’s other times to go.

Rho: Yeah, and that’s something that we’ve talked about as well, that there might be things that you want to do, but we can look at a different timeline for those things.

Like just because we want to do something doesn’t mean we have to do it right now. Maybe that’s something that we do in a few months or next year or whatever that might be to make it make sense for your finances, so that you can still hit the goals that you’re working toward. And then you don’t feel like I’m deprived, I can’t do this at all. No, you can still do the thing, it just might not be right now.

Charity: Yeah, and that was another thing I forgot to mention too when you were talking about values and spending.

The money mindset that I’ve cultivated has also helped me in my personal life with creating boundaries around whether or not I want to do certain things with people. And they’ve been respecting my decisions, like when I say no to a brunch or no to a dinner and instead suggest something that’s a little cheaper, a little bit more reasonable to spend on.

Because I’ve communicated my desire for home ownership as well.

And so a lot of my friends know that I’m trying to save up towards that and eliminate debt so that I can make that a reality.

But that requires not being able to go on certain trips or not being able to lavishly spend on things I used to spend in the past.

Rho: And I think the key in what you’re saying, like, yes, having the stronger boundaries, that’s amazing, but the fact that you’re talking about finances with your friends, right?

Like you choosing to go on this journey of improving your finances is now spilling over into your community, into your network because you feel confident telling them, “hey, I’ve got this goal, I’ve got that goal so no, I’m not going to spend on this, but what if we do this instead?”

And they probably are picking up on some of those same things like, “oh, well, Charity’s, you know, saving for a house. Maybe I could be saving for a house too. I didn’t think that that was something that I could do, but, you know, here we are.”

So, I just love that you are sharing the things that you’ve learned and the new ways that you’re thinking about your money with your friends as well. Because money is often this taboo thing that nobody talks about, but if we don’t talk about it then how do we learn? You know.

Charity: Especially in a city like New York, there’s so many financial constraints and distractions that can keep you from meeting your goals and they make you feel like you can’t get certain things in New York. Like homeownership is such a big topic, but it’s a little taboo because it’s like, oh, New York real estate is the most expensive in the world and like no one can afford this.

But yeah, there’s people who are, and it’s just taking those steps towards making decisions in order to get to that level of investment.

Rho: Exactly.

So, tell us, what words of encouragement do you have for anyone else who’s listening who is in the same situation or a similar situation to the one that you were in back before we started working together? What words of encouragement do you have for that person?

Charity: I would say that it’s possible.

I think sometimes as lawyers especially and young lawyers, it’s hard to have an open imagination because we’re told you have to do this, that, and the other in order to get this result. And it’s… everything so formulaic, but it eliminates possibility sometimes.

And so I think it’s important to keep an open mind and to see that things are possible. You just need to have concrete data, especially with finances, to help you see that it is possible.

And that you also are good with money because I think lawyers get a bad rep that we’re, we’re the best with money, even though a lot of us may not be.

But we are good, we just don’t… we need the tools. We need to incorporate the tools into our daily habits in order to, to really stick by that.

Rho: Yep, managing your money is a skill that you can learn.

If you can practice law, you can absolutely manage your money. So thank you for sharing that.

Thank you so much Charity for being on the show, for sharing your story. I know that it’s going be so helpful for all who listen.

Charity: Right. Yeah. Glad to help. Thank you, Rho.

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All right, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Charity. I hope you found it inspiring and that you got some words of wisdom, some encouragement that you can apply in your own life.

So that is it for this week’s episode. Please take a second, subscribe to the show, leave a review, share it out with somebody else who could use it. I want to get this information in the hands of as many lawyers as possible, because I want to help you achieve freedom. And as always, I appreciate your support.

As we close out, friend, I pray that you take the information you learn here, apply it in your life and open up to the realization that wealth is available to you as you do that consistently, week after week, you’ll continue to take steps to take back control of your time, build wealth, and live the life of freedom and choice you deserve. Talk to you later.