209 | Client Rewind: How Val Paid Off Tens of Thousands of Dollars of Debt

My client Val didn’t know much about personal finance and carried a lot of shame around the debt she and her husband had. They were making more than ever but going deeper into debt, so she reached out for help.

During our time working together, Val started paying off that debt and saving money. But the biggest shift for her has been the trust she developed in her ability to make decisions for her finances.

In this episode, Val and I talk about our work together, including her thoughts on debt and what it feels like to trust herself now.

• • Val’s history with money before we started working together

  • her experience with making more and having less

  • what she was expecting from coaching vs. what she got

  • how being Latina contributed to the shame Val felt around the state of her finances

  • the importance of consistency with your finances

  • one mistake many people are making with their budget

  • Val’s biggest takeaways from our work together

  • how she rated her finances when she first started coaching vs. when she finished

  • the impact of learning to trust herself with her finances

Learn more about The Wealthyesq Group Coaching Program

You’re listening to Wealthyesq. We are a community of lawyers who believe that true wealth is having control of our time. I’m Rho Thomas, and as a busy wife, mom and former Biglaw associate, I know all too well the tension between the culture of the legal profession and pretty much everything else you want to do in life. That’s why each week, I’m bringing you the information and tools you need to improve your money mindset and manage your money to create true wealth. Because ultimately, it’s not about the money. It’s about the freedom and flexibility the money affords.

Hey friend. Welcome back to the show. I hope you’re doing well and having an amazing day so far. Throughout the month of June, I’m bringing you bonus episodes, where we’ll revisit interviews with some of my clients who have been able to pay off significant debt. In each of these bonus episodes, you’ll get to hear directly from my clients all about their journey with turning their finances around and starting to get out of debt. As you listen, I want you to use their stories as examples of what’s possible for you, too. If they can do it, so can you. With that, let’s get into this week’s bonus client rewind episode.

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Rho
Welcome to the podcast Val. How’s it going?

Val
It’s good rho. How are you doing?

Rho
Well, thank you. So just for all of the listeners to know you are one of my clients, you are a big law associate. And we have worked together on improving your finances. So we are going to dive into all of the things about your story about our work together. But before we get into that, please tell us a little bit about your history with money before you started coaching.

Val
Yeah, so my history with money was pretty much by the time my husband and I got to you. There was no history. Like we had no idea what was going on. I got married three months before law school, and we were just on one high school pastor salary. So everything that was coming in was fairly small and easy to handle. And that was pretty much what was going out living kind of paycheck to paycheck, which was understandable at the time. And then by the time we got to you. We were like Where’s our money going? someone stealing from us, we have no idea what’s happening to our money. Because ever since I like got my job, I graduated, got my job. And we had no idea was going with our money. Literally the only money kind of lesson that my family taught me that my parents taught me which is kind of sad to say was not to gamble. That was my only really like, history with money. And after going through this whole process with you. I’ve literally had conversations with my parents like Guys, do you guys know? Do you guys budget? You guys know how to do that. I can’t live without budgeting now.

Rho
Well, I love that. I love that you said that. And one of the biggest things in what you just said about your history with money was like the way that you guys were managing your money on a lower income. And then when you got to the higher income, you’re like, Where’s our money going? It feels like someone’s stealing from us. Because often I think we think if I make more money than that’ll fix all the problems. And that’s not the case. Right?

Val
Definitely not. That’s what I think it was harder to keep track of what was coming in and what was going out.

Rho
Yeah, I mean, I think that the larger incomes are where budgeting becomes more important. Yeah. When it’s on the smaller scale, like yeah, you still want to make sure that you’re managing your money and make sure that you are covering the bills that you have and that kind of thing because on a lower income, it can be easier to overdraft your account or run out of money or not be able to pay your bills if you’re not managing it well. But with the higher income, think if you’re not managing it if you’re not budgeting, it just kind of falls through the cracks like what you were or what you experienced. where it’s like, oh, I have this money coming in. And so I can spend here, I can go here, I can do this. And then you look up and realize that you don’t have much left, right?

Val
Yeah. And honestly, I think part of it too, was that because I was still in law school, or I had just started law school, when we just had just gotten married. Any of our big plans, like buying a house or starting a family or anything like that, we knew that that was just automatically on hold. So it’s not like we were trying to manage our money, in terms of monthly expenses, and also saving for the future, we weren’t saving at all. And so once, obviously, I got my job. You know, that’s when we wanted to start focusing on buying house and saving, and retirement, all that stuff. And that’s for sure, an element that we were totally unprepared for, because we didn’t have, you know, a good handle on our finances, with what we were spending every month, let alone like how we could save and more of the responsible things of money.

Rho
And so then that brought you to me, so tell me what you were hoping to get out of coaching.

Val
It kind of goes off of my zero history with money. I’m not gonna lie to you, I had no idea what a budget was, or how to make it work. Like literally where to plug in numbers in a budget. That was the biggest thing that I wanted to learn with you is where oh, what goes in the budgeted side, what was in the actual side. And it sounds so stupid, as a lawyer or someone who just graduated law school and everything, like it feels I feel even more kind of stupid. And I’m kind of more hard on myself because of that. But I can’t deny it. I had no idea about anything about money. And I just wanted someone to like hold my hand, walk me through it every day. And there is an aspect of it, that you you market it as we’re learning about, like money mentality behind it. And I’m big on that I’m big on growing myself as a person, in whatever way. And so that was something that really attracted me to wanting to like, Come start working with you. And that’s for sure, something I got out of it. Because it doesn’t matter if I know how money works. I wanted to learn why I was doing what I was doing with our money and why my husband like why we were making the decisions we were making kind of that path

Rho
With what you were just saying, I think a lot of lawyers can relate to that, that being really hard on yourself, because you’re a lawyer, you’re smart, you’ve you know, always done the right thing and followed the right path and made the right decisions. And so in the context of finances, I think it can feel really bad for people, when they feel like they don’t know what they’re doing with this area. It’s like I’ve got a pretty good handle on all of these other areas of my life. But finances, I don’t know what’s going on. And I feel stupid. And that can be that can be really tough. And I think it’s a reason that many people avoid their finances and don’t want to look at it, and don’t want to figure out how to manage it, because it’s an area that they feel bad when they approach it. And so better to just push it off to avoid it. I won’t worry about that at all. So what made you decide, like, you know what, I’m actually going to learn about this area, I’m going to reach out, because I don’t want to feel this way.

Val
The truth is, we were just starting to incur so much debt. And I don’t know how we did it. But when we first got married, and those first three years, we were just on my husband’s salary, we had zero debt. Right? And it was just one, you know, one salary. I don’t know how we did it. But then when I graduated law school, I think we knew like, oh my gosh, now we’re gonna have you know, basically our lives are gonna change overnight. And I think we started spending that way. There’s also an aspect of emotionally like, I we deserve this, we sacrifice a lot. So we started spending, like we deserved it. And things just started getting out of hand with debt I we spent more without realizing it. We spent more than what we had coming in. And we didn’t know how to, I could just tell that it was starting to go down a deep dark path, and I didn’t want to go there. And when we first started working together, I remember you had to teach me a lot like debt is not bad. It’s not good. It’s neutral. And I’m one of those people that I just thought debt is the worst thing ever. I should be so completely ashamed. I’m a failure for having any debt whatsoever. This is ridiculous. I can’t tell anybody about this. That was another thing too about going to you was your third party who doesn’t know me you’re not my family. You’re not my like you weren’t my friend at the time. And I didn’t have to like disclose my deepest story. cuz secrets to someone I knew it was somewhat different. And that was just a big part of it. I had such negative views on debt and negative views about my money in that moment that my husband and I just made the decision, like things are getting out of hand, let’s get some help.

Rho
I think so many people can relate to what you just said about the way that you felt about debt, you felt like it was this terrible thing. Like, I just have to get rid of it. That was my experience as well. Like when we first calculated up all our debt, I was like, Oh, my gosh, it’s so much I gotta get rid of it. Right. And it’s so pervasive in our culture, this idea that debt is terrible, and you’re a bad person, if you’ve got debt, and you know, all of that. And then I think that coupled with the high expectations that we tend to place on ourselves as lawyers, and you know, the idea that we’re supposed to do it, all right, and we’re smart, and you know, all of that, I think it just makes for such a bad situation for lawyers with debt and thinking about their finances.

Val
And on top of that, I’m Latina. And I think in the Latin culture, there’s a lot of pressure, especially when you’re an immigrant, and you’re coming to this country, you’re supposed to achieve the American dream. And here I was, with a big law job and living basically paycheck to paycheck or not even paycheck to paycheck, we were going in debt. And that was the ultimate source of shame. It’s funny, because once we started working together, we went into more debt. I think we were just on this very, like fast trajectory, like negative trajectory. And we came to you as soon as we could, as soon as we realized, but there was a lot of like, course correction that had to happen. And it took a couple months to get to a better place for sure.

Rho
Yeah you guys already had some things kind of set in motion. At the beginning of when we first started working together. It was like, Okay, we were already doing this. But when we get on the other side of that, then we’ll be able to do that and

Val
Then we’ll do. Okay. Yeah. It was not good.

Rho
But it wasn’t bad, either. Right? You had the plans, you had the way that you had been managing to that point. And you were doing the best that you could at that time. And you recognize that, okay, we’re not turning this around, let’s get some help. So that we can make the progress that we want to make with our finances, we can achieve these goals that we have.

Val
Yeah, exactly. It was just a matter of like, taking the first step to achieving those goals. And even though we were on this, like downward path, whatever you want to call it. And it took a couple of months to course correct. Yeah, it was just a matter of finally taking that first step. And what is it? What is the phrase jumping? The what is it jumping the gun? I don’t even know. You take a risk. I don’t know some phrases. I don’t know. I honestly, English is not my first language. Some phrases I forget. It was just a matter of taking a risk and trying something new and talking to you. I had heard you speak I can’t remember at some events for lawyers. And I think that was the moment that, you know, I felt seen and heard. And also I went to your website, and you specifically market to lawyers, that was a huge thing for me, because you were you were speaking to what I was living, which was lawyers making very good salaries, right? But still living paycheck to paycheck, how can that be? How can that be? That was something that I’m like, she’s gonna solve all my problems, this lady is just gonna be wrong, and just gonna be hard on me, which is exactly what I want. And it’s gonna be great. And that’s actually not how you were you were not hard on me at all. And there are so many moments where I was like, rho, I just want you to tell me what’s right and what’s wrong, and what the rules are. So I can just follow the rules. But you kept telling me there are no rules, you make the rules. And at first, I would just roll my eyes at that and get so annoyed, actually, at you. And now I would say that’s 100% my biggest takeaway, there’s so much freedom in the fact that I make my own rules. I decide when it comes to my finances, or my husband and I we make those decisions together. And that was so freeing honestly.

Rho
You’re such a lawyer. All the lawyers want all the rules, right? I am too. I’m like, give me the rules. Give me the steps. And I’m going to follow them step by step by step right. And that’s just not the way it is with personal finance. Like yeah, I can give you some guidelines like these are the things that I have found work pretty well. But even with that, each of my clients takes that and makes it their own, right, like, here’s this, you know, budget template, and then you take it like, oh, I don’t need this category, I want to add these categories. I want to do this, I want to track it this way, I’m gonna look at it on this day, right? Like you bring your own flavor to all of it, because personal finance is 100%. Personal. There aren’t any rules.

Val
Yes, that’s I’ve never heard that actually, personal finance is 100%. Personal. Yes, it is. And I think kind of what you were saying earlier that when it’s all so you know, messy and you’re thinking of it in such a negative way, you tend to hide from it, you don’t want to look at your finances, and then it just gets worse because it keeps piling on. But for me, when I realized that my personal finance was personal to me that I could make the decision that there’s nothing wrong, that debt, for example, is neutral, not good, not bad, then I started to change my mentality on it. And I was able to approach a budget, get into my little Excel, you know, that you gave template that you gave me and like, not hate every second of it. And now I’m to the point where I enjoy going in there and plugging in the numbers and seeing how great we’ve done for the last whatever.

Rho
Want to make all the lawyers love budgeting.

Val
Lawyers love numbers, what I’ve heard of

Rho
No, but truly your budget is the foundation for all of the things that you want to do, right. And like you have accomplished some amazing things in the last six, seven months. And we will of course talk about that. But I think it all comes back to the budget, like you were making more, but you were going into debt, you weren’t managing it as well, right? You were kind of moving away from the goals that you had for yourself. And then when you learned how to do the budget, how to direct your money intentionally, then you were able to direct it to all of these wonderful things that you have done. And so I love that you love getting in there and doing your numbers and doing the budget because so many people are like, I don’t want to do it. And it’s like, no, it’s great.

Val
And one thing I would say to that that was really important was the consistency aspect of it. When we first started working together, yeah, that initial homework of a, like a three month look back, I think is what we did. You told me like, yeah, go look at your finances, fill out this Excel sheet so that we can see where it’s been. And I was like, Wait a second, do you mean I have to go look at every single purchase for the last three months? No way, that’s impossible. It’s gonna take me forever. And it did take me forever. But over time, when you’re consistent enough, it doesn’t take any time at all. And you suggested that another client did this. And I started doing this every Friday morning, I take like 10 minutes if that to do everything for the first week, or for that for the week before, the consistency aspect was really important for me, because then it just made things smaller was less overwhelming. And it got to a point where could be fun, where I was just going in there and seeing and I felt at ease. And I felt prepared, which I think for me and other type A, you know, personalities, whether you’re a lawyer or not, you always want to feel like you’re in control and you’re prepared and you know what’s coming your way. And when you’re on top of your budget, reconciling your budget, then yeah, it feels good.

Rho
Yeah, that initial homework of looking back, so I say one to three months, I say at least one month, but you know, maybe do three because if we just have at least a month, then we can get a good idea of what your spending is like, three gives you an even better snapshot of your typical spending. But, you know, at least one month gives you some data to work with. So you can see, okay, this is about how much you’re spending in this area or that area. But I always get pushback or resistance from it. And I think one is because you’re not used to looking at your numbers in the first place. So you don’t feel like doing that. But then two, you’re looking at a whole month’s worth or three months worth if you do that. Very few clients actually do the full three. Typically. Yeah, typically they only do one month.

Val
One. Yeah, I mean, I think he did say one to three. And I was like Not a chance. Maybe one one.

Rho
But to your point, like when you started doing it more consistently like I always encourage people to look at their budget once a week because when you do that, you don’t have as many transactions to look at and it doesn’t take nearly as long right? And you’re looking at it and you know exactly where you are in the month against what you were planning to do. And so you can course correct if you need to, or you see like, Oh, I’ve got a little bit more in this area. I can go and do this extra thing. or whatever it is, but when you’re not, like I just did a post recently about the top budget mistakes that I see. And one of them is not looking at your budget at all. Because a lot of times people will make the budget, but then they won’t look at it. And I say, you know, all the time, it’s hard to stay on track with a plan, if you’re not looking at it.

Val
Yeah, 100%. And that was part of the mystery behind it for me, because one of the things I wanted to learn working with you was not just how to do a budget, but how to stick to it. Because, yeah, I could put down on paper or on an Excel sheet somewhere, X amount for groceries for the month, but then I go buy groceries, or I may go two or three times a week, if we need we ran out of whatever. And how am I going to keep track of all of that in my head, I’m not, I’m not going to really know, you make small purchases throughout the week, it all adds up. And you don’t realize that and so you have to go look occasionally at your budget, at least occasionally, to see where you’re at. And like you said, course correct? Because if not, you’re gonna get to the end of the month and be like, Oh, well, I spent more than I made, which is what we were doing every month.

Rho
Yeah, that’s what a lot of people are doing, you know. So it’s not just you, that happens all the time. And, you know, I think just having that regular practice of checking in with your finances weekly, it really helps. You know, just being able to see, this is how much I’ve spent in this week, even just being aware of your spending habits, even if you’re not doing that initial planning on the front end, just being aware of oh, this is how much I spent at Starbucks, or this is how much I spend on takeout or whatever it is like that can be enough sometimes for people to be like, I want to change this. I don’t like the amount that I’ve spent here.

Val
Yes, 100%.

Rho
So tell us about some of the things that you’ve done financially, it can be either, like actual monetary things, or how your mindset has changed around your finances or both.

Val
I’ll start with mindset because that was the biggest positive takeaway from this, how I felt about money, how I thought about my money, and how prepared I felt about my money. Like I said, Before, I feel like I didn’t really know anything, I didn’t even know what a budget was. And so learning and just educating myself, that was the shoot the biggest thing for me, that was what I wanted just to feel better. And then to build off of that was now that I know kind of where my money’s going and what what money like is or what our habits are, what am I going to do with that knowledge? Why are we making the decisions that we’re making? What do we want or a future? And how do we get there? And how we felt about how when I say we obviously I mean, me and my husband, but how we felt about our money, it just was extremely overwhelming. Because, you know, we started with not a lot having been only on his salary, and we wanted to buy house and we live in Atlanta, we wanted to stay in Atlanta, and that was going to be impossible, because everything’s so expensive. So I think it was just a matter of feeling like we are somewhat knowledgeable, we somewhat understand and we’re in control. And if that means that we buy a house, for example, this year or next year, so we can spend more time saving than that’s okay. Nobody’s going to tell me what’s right, what’s wrong. Like you said, there are no rules and personal finance. And that that was just the number one takeaway for me, because, like I said earlier, it’s extremely freeing to be able to make my own decisions, because I’m the one who has to live with them at the end of the day. And I’m not have the mentality of like rice and beans until you know, you get to your house that that I said that to you on the very first day. Like that wasn’t going to work with me. Because I had like as lawyers, we sacrificed so much every day, we’re stressed out like there are just certain things at the end of the day that I want to be able to go eat out, you know, if I was just to like tired to cook or whatever. And so yeah, I think the mentality that changed for me that was the number one thing that changed for me financially like money moves that we made. I would say row we did at the beginning incur more debt, which is not ideal. But, you know, eventually we got to a point where it felt okay, at the same time to start paying off our debt. I mean, I can’t remember now what we you know, we ended up paying but I think we went down like a good bit and debt. And it was exciting because you noted to me whenever I reached my first like milestone, and every little milestone after that, it was just really exciting. So we’ve made some good money moves in that respect.

Rho
Yeah, like you guys were able to pay off debt. And like, the biggest thing that you just mentioned is the mindset shift and the way that you’re thinking about your money and thinking about your debt and all of that now. And I think that’s the biggest key, right? Because no matter what happens, income wise, you have changed the way that you think about and approach your money. And you’re going to know exactly what to do with it.

Val
For sure, I mean, when we first started working together, during that very first session, you asked me, on a scale of one to 10, you know, how do you feel about XYZ, and you asked me on several different categories. And then at the on our very last session, you asked me again, the same questions, and I was giving you all like, eights, nines, and 10s, pretty much at the end of our time together. And then he told me that at the beginning of our time together, I was at like, ones, pretty much across the board, which is really sad, but really great. And just goes to show that this was all like working with us extremely effective. For me, it really did change my life. Not to be cheesy, but it did, because I feel like there was this missing part of my life that I didn’t know how to work with money. And it made me feel bad about myself, that I went and did something about it. And that changed my life.

Rho
No, I love that. And I think again, it goes back to what we were talking about with how we as lawyers put all of this pressure on ourselves, to know how to do all the things to be perfect. And when there’s that area, that you don’t know what you’re doing in, it can lead to feeling bad, right? So I love that you decided to do something about it to change it. And I love that it has changed your life, I think that this work is life changing. Regardless of what happens income wise, you’re always going to know how to manage your money. And you’re always going to have a different way of viewing your money, a different way of approaching your money, so that you will achieve the goals that you have for yourself.

Val
One of the big things for me was becoming comfortable and trusting myself, when we’re talking about teetering between the lines of finally trusting myself and not trusting myself in the work that I’ve put in. trusting myself that to me was, I feel when I finally unlocked the the moment of wow, I now know about my personal finances, I am now educated, because there wasn’t a course for what you spend at the grocery store. There’s not one course that you can go take on, like, how much you should spend at the gym. I mean, whatever. These are stupid examples. But once I trusted myself, I feel like that was the moment that whatever decision I made, whatever questions that came my way I would be able to knowledgeably answer them and make those decisions confidently. And I think that was the big thing. Because otherwise, you know, you’re gonna go read articles, this is probably why reading articles wasn’t working for me. And I ended up wanting to work with you anyway, because there was more of a personal aspect that was just missing for me. And that was it was getting to the point where I don’t know, I could trust myself in the decisions that I was making.

Rho
Yeah, that is such a good point. Because so many people look to the articles, and the blogs and the podcasts and the books and all of that. And not to say that that’s wrong. But that information tends to be generalized so that it can help, you know, the masses, right? Like, it’s this general information that they try to make applicable to as many people as possible. But it takes that kind of personal aspect out of it. Right, like you making those decisions for your personal finances. Like yes, you can take in this information from the article, but then you still make it your own. And it comes down to having that trust in yourself to be able to make the decision to maybe do something slightly different from what the article said.

Val
Exactly. And, you know, reading articles is also like a little good metaphor for taking what society is telling you about how you should handle your finances. And what you should be doing by this point by age 30. You should have X, Y, Z or a house being one of the big ones and getting to the point where I could trust myself and relay the message to my husband like we could trust our decisions was very freeing as well because we are at the point where we do want to get a house, what kind of house How much do we spend on it, all that stuff. It’s very easy to get clouded with what everybody’s opinions are, you know, it feels very good to be able to get to a point where I can live listen to advice and know when to take it and when not to take it because I know what’s best for my family. I know what my finances look like and what actually makes sense for us. That was a big thing.

Rho
That is so good. Yes, all of that. So what words of encouragement Do you have, for anyone who’s listening, who is where you were back at the start of us working together?

Val
You know what I would say, don’t be so hard on yourself. I think more people are in a difficult financial position than you realize, or more and more people have no idea what they’re doing with their money, more than you realize. And it helps to normalize it a little bit. This is not, money is not something that’s taught in schools, when you’re growing up, this is a huge thing that we’re missing out on as we’re growing up. And all of a sudden, you do grow up, you become an adult. And it all hits you at once. And I am someone who is extremely, extremely, extremely hard on herself. And my advice to people listening out there is don’t be so hard on yourself. But do take action, do something. If the articles aren’t working out for you, you know, reach out to rho like I did, or find someone that you trust that, a trusted, wise counsel that can guide you through good decision making and good judgment. You know, building good judgment when it comes to your finances, because it’s crazy how it’ll affect you in the rest of your life. When you feel confident in one area, it will really really start to affect other areas.

Rho
I love that. Thank you so much Val for being on for sharing your story for sharing all of the things that you’ve learned I know is going to be so valuable for all the people listening.

Val
Yeah, thank you so much for having me rho. And seriously, thank you for the last six months. It’s truly been life changing.

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I hope you enjoyed hearing about my client’s journey, and I hope you can see the possibilities that are available to you, as well. I will help you get there.

I’m hosting a free workshop called How to Break the Debt Cycle on June 17. You’ll learn what the debt cycle is, why so many lawyers stay in it, the exact steps you need to take to break free for good, and how my 6-month group program, The Wealthyesq Group, will help you do it. Save your seat at rhothomas.com/workshop.

Immediately after the workshop, enrollment will open for The Wealthyesq Group. In that program, I’ll teach you how to get control of your money and get out of debt faster than you thought possible. You can get more info about the group at rhothomas.com/coaching.

Alright, that is it for this week’s bonus episode. Be sure to meet me back here on Friday for our regularly scheduled episode, and I’ll talk to you then.

As we close out friend I pray that you take the information you learn here apply it in your life and open up to the realization that wealth is available to you. As you do that consistently week after week. You’ll continue to take steps to regain control of your time, build wealth and live the life of freedom and choice you deserve. Talk to you later.