211 | Client Rewind: How Alex Paid Off $20,000 and Saved $30,000

My client Alex felt confused with all the conflicting advice out there about how to manage his money.

He also felt trapped by his student loans and didn’t think he would be able to accomplish some of his life goals, like buying a house, until years down the line when he had paid them off.

After working with me, those thoughts and feelings totally changed.

In this episode, Alex and I chat about our work together, including how he shifted his view of money and checked off some of those life goals—while still paying off some of his debt—in less than a year.

• • Alex’s experience with money before coaching

  • how he figured out his relationship with money

  • how exploring what he actually wanted led to him achieving life goals he thought were out of reach right now

  • the goals he was able to accomplish while coaching

  • how he feels about his money and his professional options now

  • the importance of shifting his view of debt in achieving his goals

  • Alex’s words of advice for anyone struggling with their money and considering coaching

  • how coaching helped Alex evolve and achieve things he didn’t even realize he wanted

You’re listening to Wealthyesq. We are a community of lawyers who believe that true wealth is having control of our time. I’m Rho Thomas, and as a busy wife, mom and former Biglaw associate, I know all too well the tension between the culture of the legal profession and pretty much everything else you want to do in life. That’s why each week, I’m bringing you the information and tools you need to improve your money mindset and manage your money to create true wealth. Because ultimately, it’s not about the money. It’s about the freedom and flexibility the money affords.

Hey friend. Welcome back to the show. I hope you’re doing well and having an amazing day so far. Throughout the month of June, I’m bringing you bonus episodes, where we’ll revisit interviews with some of my clients who have been able to pay off significant debt. In each of these bonus episodes, you’ll get to hear directly from my clients all about their journey with turning their finances around and starting to get out of debt. As you listen, I want you to use their stories as examples of what’s possible for you, too. If they can do it, so can you. With that, let’s get into this week’s bonus client rewind episode.

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Rho
Welcome to the podcast, Alex. How are you?

Alex
Good Rho. Thanks for having me.

Rho
Absolutely. So I am super excited to be back with you again, we were just chatting before we started recording about how it’s been a little while. But of course, the audience has not had the opportunity to meet you. So will you take a second and introduce yourself?

Alex
Absolutely. Hi, everyone. My name is Alex, I am an in house attorney. And I started working with Roe almost a year ago. And so I’ve accomplished a lot. And I’m excited to talk to you guys about it today.

Rho
I love it. So tell us a little bit about your money story before we started working together, like what was that like?

Alex
Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up as somebody who hadn’t really had a lot of it. And, you know, obviously faced the challenges of always feeling like I needed more of it. Right before we started working together almost a year ago, I ended up taking a job that, you know, brought me more than I had ever been making before. And with that came a lot of mental challenges around feeling like I wanted to know if that I was doing the right things with my money, and, you know, utilizing it to the best way possible. And I realized that that wasn’t something that I was quite ready to do on my own. So you know, I was looking for some guidance out there. And I had been reading articles and getting conflicting opinions as to you know, here’s the best thing for somebody your age to be doing with your money. And it became hard to figure out what those steps were and didn’t ever feel like I could find the right prescription for my current situation.

Rho
Yeah, and I know we connected on LinkedIn. So what made you reach out for a consultation?

Alex
Yeah, so I had actually seen one of your posts, that somebody else I think it either liked or shared. And it was one where you were describing just the genuine relationship with money that a lot of people have based on your perspective. And, you know, you went into your own journey with money and the things that you had accomplished individually and then with your husband. And it felt like it really spoke to me in terms of maybe not necessarily where I felt like I was but where I wanted to be. And so, you know, it was a little nerve wracking, because usually LinkedIn is something that you’re reaching out to someone about networking for professional reasons. But it looked like it was the perfect opportunity to not only network with another attorney, but also to just explore the perspective that you had and clearly felt comfortable talking about and creating a side hustle for yourself doing.

Rho
So you mentioned that you had been kind of researching already you were looking into how to manage your money, you are getting these conflicting opinions. So what were you looking for in terms of coaching? Like, what were you expecting to get out of coaching? I think

Alex
I was expecting to have somebody tell me what I should be doing with my money. You know, that’s never something that’s easy to find. And with anything else in life, you think you want to be told what to do with things, and then you know, that’s not necessarily the case. So I was expecting to you know, learn how to make a budget, create, you know, a student loan repayment plan, things like that. Because in my mind, those were the two top things, learn how to manage the money and focus on priorities, and determine what those priorities are. And that’s what I expected initially.

Rho
And as you know, from working with me that there is no right or wrong way to manage your finances. There’s no like, Hey, this is exactly what you should do. So what was that like? Like getting into coaching, expecting someone to tell you, this is what you should do? And then it being like, actually, what do you want to do?

Alex
Yeah, no, I think it was in an eye opening experience to take a step back and to really peel back the layers figure out, you know, what were the important things to me, and really disassociate things like my goals and feelings from money. I think the hardest thing is that when those things are combined, it’s very hard to make choices, because because they become an emotional, it’s hard to be strategic. So for me, the conversations that we had were much more in depth and finding reasons why I like exploring why I had certain feelings about money. And those were thoughts that I had never really allowed myself to dig a little deeper in. And to my surprise, it was actually the key to me being able to figure out what is my relationship with money and what are my goals with it? How can I think about money as a tool, and less like an obligation or a burden or anything like that?

Rho
Yeah, and you did such a great job with that. would have been really exploring all of the things and like figuring out what was important to you, or what is important to you, and being able to tailor the way that you were managing your money to that. So I love that you were able to do that it was just so amazing to see. And working with you last year, I saw you really kind of blossom for lack of a better word. And it was really cool to see you through all of the different transitions that you had with that initial, you know, way that you were thinking about money and feeling about money to ultimately at the end of last year, how you were handling your money and what you were thinking and feeling. So it was really, really cool to see. Yeah, what would you say are some of the biggest things that stand out to you from when we were working together? Or like a big takeaway that you had from the work that we did together?

Alex
Yeah, absolutely. I would say that I think the biggest takeaway for me was kind of like what I was talking about before creating that, you know, that emotional detachment from money, and looking at it more like a tool. When we first started speaking and working together, I felt almost trapped by money. You know, I felt like I was doing things that I didn’t like to do professionally for money, I felt like I had a responsibility to myself and my family, to earn a certain amount and to do things with that money. And it became very overwhelming. And so one of my biggest things is really starting to take a look at what are my goals? And what does financial freedom mean to me. And that was, I think, the biggest takeaway for me, but, you know, I made a list of a couple of things that, you know, were some really great milestones for me that, truthfully, I kind of put on the backburner. And I treated them as long term goals, and never really considered them to be short term goals, because I didn’t really feel like I had a handle on my money. So just kind of going down the list of things. Last year, I bought a home, which was a huge opportunity. For me, as part of buying the home, I was able to make some really great home improvement projects through some goal setting that we did, I was able to pay over $20,000 in student loans, which was another huge goal for me, I was able to save about $30,000 and create an emergency fund something that the concept was very foreign to me other than reading about it in articles, I didn’t know what that meant. I was able to buy an engagement ring and plan a party. And you know, as of recently starting to plan a wedding. And so these were some really huge, life changing experiences that I had, that I can really only attribute to, you know, the time that we spent working together.

Rho
It was really cool to see, especially around the engagement and planning the party like I remember when you came as you proposed in November, and you came in October, and you had like the budget all planned out for it. And I was like, oh, yeah, he gets it. Like that was the moment where it was just like, yes, this has all clicked in the way that you were thinking about and managing your money was so different from when we had started working together at the beginning of the year. And so I was just so proud to see the way that you were putting all of that together and really thinking ahead to Okay, people are going to be in town, we’re gonna go here, we’re going to do this. And this is how much I’m thinking and you know, all of that. And then I think you’re even starting to plan for the holidays too, with that budget, and it was just like, yes, yes, that is it. Tell us where are you now in terms of your finances,

Alex
mentally in a good place? You know, I feel like I’ve been able to accomplish a lot of the goals and bring a lot of them to the forefront and prove to myself that you know, money is a tool and something that I can use to accomplish those goals. It’s something that doesn’t control my life. It’s something that helps me control my life. And in terms of the student loan payments, you know, I think that that was a huge win. For me, just looking back on it, because strategically, I thought that the best thing for me was to put all of my money and into my student loans and to live on the bare minimum. And just like a lot of those articles and stories that you read, knowing that, you know, that wasn’t really how I wanted to live my life. And I allow student loans to be at the forefront of my priorities. So things like buying home, proposing getting married, things like that, like huge personal accomplishments, you know, I let fall by the wayside before we started working together. And to look at the list now and just see the things that I’ve accomplished in the ways that I’ve been able to strategically create assets for myself and decrease liabilities has been huge, really huge for me, and I think it’s given me a new sense of calm offense in terms of looking at how I spend my money, how strategically I spend my money. And then also, you know how I prioritize my happiness. As we were working together, there was the time where I was actually looking for a new role. And a huge part of that, for me was feeling like, Hey, can I afford to take less money? Do I need to take more money. And that’s often a challenge that people have when they’re working through a lot of those career changes. And I felt like through the work that we were doing together, I was able to strategically pick something that I was interested in, and even get myself to a position compensation wise that met my budget, you know, I was accounting for large decreases in case I found the job that I love that couldn’t pay me what I was currently making. I looked at what potential other opportunities who had made offers for larger amounts, what the budget would look like, if I was doing that. And I was able to make a choice that felt good for me. In hindsight, thinking back to when we first started working together, I felt like I had to stay with the one job just because that was the most amount of money that I had ever been making. And I felt almost trapped by it. But a year later looking at myself, and understanding that I was able to make a decision where less money was actually on the table. And to feel like I was making the right decision because I had become strategic with my spending and my saving and my debt repayment strategies. It was a huge, you know, a huge accomplishment for me,

Rho
I remember when we first started working together, the amount that you were making, like you were saying that was the most that you had been making. And so you were concerned about potentially taking a pay cut. But a big part of that, I think was exactly what you said that there wasn’t that intention behind the spending before. And so you weren’t really sure how much you needed to live on. Right? Like you weren’t sure like what that amount was. And so we were able to look at your expenses, and see like, Okay, this is the amount that you are spending on your regular expenses. And then this is the amount that’s going towards some of your other goals. And let’s play with that and see a range that you could go with for your new role. And you were able to see like, Oh, I’ve actually got a lot of flexibility here, because of the way that you’re looking at your finances. And then something that you said earlier that I really wanted to highlight, because I know a lot of lawyers struggle with this. But you were talking about that focus on debt repayment, I think we get so many messages about how debt is bad and gotta get rid of it as fast as possible and all of that. And so a lot of people find themselves in the same position that you were in, where it’s like, let me just put everything else on the backburner. I’m not going to do anything, but focus on this debt. So can you talk a little bit about that shift for you, where you stopped focusing so much on the debt and started looking at what you want for your life and how you balanced that?

Alex
I think, you know, when I, when I started, I felt almost like the debt was a suffocating part of my life, it was kind of like the rainy cloud that was following me around. And it was hard for me to break through to the idea that wild debt is something that I didn’t want hanging over me forever, it wasn’t something that I had to completely prioritize, and put everything else to the side. For me, you know, looking at myself, now, the debt is still there, it’s smaller than it once was. But it feels manageable. You know, I feel like I have a plan. That’s strategic, I’ve been able to make certain decisions that, you know, have allowed me to do things like purchase a home and buy a car and things like that, that I always felt like the debt was preventing me from doing. It wasn’t until I started actually looking into these things that while the debt was there, you know, those opportunities were still there as well. And I think a big part of that was really taking a look at what I was making what my monthly expenses, were baking in the student loan payments, taking a look at where I could make extra payments. And then I’m also just kind of looking at the timeline of like, if I’m making this payment every month for the next X amount of years, I’ll be done. And I remember a moment when we were calculating it together because I had actually never done it before other than looking at payoff quotes and things like that. It was much sooner than I thought it was going to be like I was looking at it like it was this thing that was going to take the next like quarter century of my life. And it really wasn’t that far away. And I remember that moment and it was a huge shift for me. And I think so much of what prevented me from actually taking a look and really dissecting the current state of affairs was just fear and anxiety around it. And once I pierced through those anxious thoughts and feelings around the debt, I was able to really see that they were much more manageable than I thought they were. And it’s as simple as it was, it was really like putting them on a spreadsheet, going through them looking at interest rates, looking at the payment amounts, all of those kinds of things. And once we did that, I felt a huge weight lifted off my shoulders.

Rho
Yeah, I think the experience that you’re describing is so common, because we tend to have six figure and multi six figures, student loan debt, and it just feels like this big, heavy weight. Everything that you said was exactly how I felt when we first started looking at our debt to nose like, we just got to get rid of it as fast as possible, right. And it was like the main focus to the exclusion of everything else. And I was making myself really miserable and not doing things that I enjoy. Because I was like, Well, I’ve got debt. And this is bad. And I’ve got to pay it off as soon as possible. And so really taking that step back to look at, okay, yes, this debt is here, and I’m going to make progress toward it, I’m going to make moves to pay it off. But it’s not, or it doesn’t have to be my singular focus, I can still do some of these other things in life, even though I have debt. And that can be okay, too. So I wanted to come back around to it just to make sure that we highlighted that for everyone. Yeah. Is there any advice or word of encouragement that you would give to anyone who is in the same place that you were when we first started working together? Who’s you know, wondering how they can get on top of their finances? Maybe they’re on the fence about coaching? Any words of advice or encouragement that you would share with them?

Alex
Yeah, absolutely. You know, the thought of sharing my finances initially with somebody who felt like a complete stranger was a huge trust opportunity for me, you know, I always kept a lot of that very close to the chest. And what I realized, once I started reading some of your posts and listening to your podcast was that I didn’t have to do it alone. And doing it alone wasn’t necessarily the best thing. For me having someone else’s perspective, having a sounding board speaking to somebody who had gone through it before, and is living proof that you can actually do these things. If you’re strategic, and you’re thoughtful about your approaches. I think that that is the perfect mixture for a lot of people who don’t have the confidence, experience, or support, to really like work through those kinds of issues. And the first step is really, you know, allowing yourself to be okay with your current state of affairs and realize that, wherever you are on the spectrum of your feelings with money, like you can really only go up. And a lot of that just comes with awareness of who you are, what you have, and where you want to be. And a lot of that comes from really dissecting various areas of your life. And just like anything else in life, once you learn a new skill, it’s, you know, it’s easy to apply it going forward. You know, if coaching was a commitment that a lot of people, a lot of my peers who I would talk to, you know, they thought I was crazy, they’re like, you’re, you’re getting on the phone with somebody at like, 8pm After work, and you’re going through your budget, so they’re like, that would give me so much anxiety doing that. And I said, No, it actually is an opportunity for me to feel less stress, you know, I have the opportunity to be held accountable, just like a trainer at the gym. I have an accountability there. And I have the opportunity to bounce questions off somebody, I have someone here my thoughts. And that’s what I think really helped me through a lot of the the journey that I had was the support and the perspective that you were able to provide. Even in some, when some of those moments, it was really me venting about stress and not knowing what to do you were able to help me stay centered, and figure out like, what do I want to achieve? And what are my options? And we used to do that all the time. But what’s that what the options are? And then you would ask me which one sounds the best. And that would make that decision that way. So that was my long winded way of really expressing that coaching is a really great tool. And then separate but related the awareness factor of just learning about your spending habits, determining whether you want to adjust them allows you to set goals that you didn’t think that you’d be able to set and the earlier life you can do it I’m realizing the better. But you know, for people who are tackling these challenges a little later in life, what I said earlier still stands true and that’s you can only go up and the emotional factor that is tied to money can only change and you’ll become more strategic. That will enable you to achieve a lot of your goals whether that’s working at the same job buying something that you’ve always wanted, or not working at all. That’s what I’ve really been able to gather from my experience.

Rho
One thing that I love that you said you were saying the awareness of your spending habits and deciding whether you want to change them, because it is very much a choice, right? And you can decide, like, No, I actually liked that I’m spending this much in this category, or I don’t like them spending this much in that category. And you mentioned some of the things that you did while we were working together. And I think a lot of times people think like, oh, well, a coach is going to tell me that I can’t spend on anything, and I can, you know, only put my money into savings or toward debt. It’s like, no, what do you want to do? Right? Like you had a lot of different life events that you were wanting to accomplish. And so it’s like, okay, let’s look at how we can do those things. And you were able to do them. And you had a lot of fun along the way, as well, you know, on trips, and you know, all of those types of things that you did, but you still were able to learn how to manage your finances, and really get in touch with what was important to you, and align that spending accordingly. So that you could spend on those fun things that you wanted to do, or those things that you wanted to accomplish, and still also achieve some of the more traditional goals like saving and paying off debt. Is there anything else that we didn’t cover that you want to share? Or that you just want to make sure that people know,

Alex
I would say that, you know, I know I made a list of the things that I was able to accomplish. But one of the really interesting things about it is almost none of those things were on my list. And we started working together. And I think that really speaks to how the process really helps you evolve over time. And what I found was that as I was becoming more aware of my spending and being more strategic about it, you know, it wasn’t that I was spending less money, I was just deciding where I wanted to spend it. And all of these things were priorities for me, but I didn’t realize that, number one, I wanted them right away. And number two, that they were attainable. Because like I was saying before, I just put them on the backburner, and I was like, I’m not going to be able to do that, and for another 10 years, and that till my loans are paid off. And so once I had one goal accomplished, it was easy to set the next and to set the next. And, you know, I don’t think that I would have been able to do all of those things within the span of me here without going through the coaching process. And, you know, a lot of the tools that we created together the Excel sheets, the trackers that we worked through every week, you know, I still use those today. And I utilize them in a way that I’m able to plan for larger scale things. And I’m able to use it as a check in, you know, in moments where I feel like, oh, like I’ve got this really big thing that I need to pay for, or I’m worried that I spend too much, I go back to my tracker, and I see like, you know what, I had it in there, or I’m good. Like I have something in here that will keep me safe and protected in the event that something happens. But then again, I also have enough, like I’m saving enough every month to make this goal happen, too. So the sense of security that I’ve gotten from a savings perspective has been phenomenal. And I think the mentality that I have with money now has just fundamentally changed the way that I view my life. And not only does it affect my personal life, but it affects my professional life, you know, I don’t allow my job to take the reigns over my life in the same ways that I think I was before, even in ways that may not have been as obvious, you know, in terms of like the hours that I was working, or the loyalty that I felt like I had to have at a place he was paying me a certain amount. You know, those things really started to dissipate as I started to realize I’m in control of my situation, like I’m not relying on this job. And if I don’t enjoy what I’m doing or the way that I’m being treated, I can move on and feel okay that my life isn’t dependent on this opportunity or this job that I’m currently at. So I think that that’s really changed the way that I view my role and my job as an attorney in house that can be a crazy time. And it’s, it’s something that I’m entirely grateful for.

Rho
I am so proud of all that you have done and to hear that you’re still using our spreadsheets I’m like yes, that warms my heart. I absolutely love that. Thank you so much, Alex for coming on and sharing your story is just always a pleasure to talk to you. And I am so glad that others have been able to hear all of the amazing things that you’ve been able to accomplish.

Alex
Thank you, Rho. Yeah, it was a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

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I hope you enjoyed hearing about my client’s journey, and I hope you can see the possibilities that are available to you, as well. I will help you get there.

Enrollment is now open for The Wealthyesq Group, my 6-month group program to help lawyers get out of debt and get control of their money. I will guide you step by step through my proven process to pay off your debt and improve your finances. You get weekly group calls to get all your questions answered, personalized reviews of your finances complete with custom strategy, daily written support, a private community, on-demand video trainings, and downloadable resources. Join us to learn how to get out of debt in the most sustainable, most enjoyable way. Your investment is only $3000, and it’s risk-free. You’ll pay off at least $5000 in the program, or you get your money back. Join us at rhothomas.com/coaching.

Alright, that is it for this week’s bonus episode. Meet me back here on Friday for our regularly scheduled episode, and I look forward to talking with you then.

As we close out friend I pray that you take the information you learn here apply it in your life and open up to the realization that wealth is available to you. As you do that consistently week after week. You’ll continue to take steps to regain control of your time, build wealth and live the life of freedom and choice you deserve. Talk to you later.